Seychelles V2

[PGB]

Hi guys,

it seems there is an issue with the localizer aligning.

SIA ILS/DME is 310° according charts

Second issue:

aircraft (PMDG 777) hits the runway at ~50ft altitude

I started my flight from OMDB and used an autosave to reproduce it after crashing into runway once.
Same result.

pls look into it

cheers
Paul

[horst18519]

Did you try it with the default scenery? I'm not familiar with the PMDG777 autoland procedure but if it works with the default FSIA navaids it should work with our version as well.

Localizer Heading is 305, so that's a bit off 310 that's right. That should not affect your landing though since there are no obstacles on the approach glideslope to rwy 31.

[PGB]

Did you try it with the default scenery? I'm not familiar with the PMDG777 autoland procedure but if it works with the default FSIA navaids it should work with our version as well.

Localizer Heading is 305, so that's a bit off 310 that's right. That should not affect your landing though since there are no obstacles on the approach glideslope to rwy 31.

Hi Thorsten,

I normally don't approach standard sceneries, so i can't say how the default scenery behaves.
And i don't autoland the aircraft (on CATI ILS) ;)

This offset results in the impression that there must be extremely x-wind even if thery isn't any. I tried to allign LOC and land manually and than
i crashed into runways before flare. There is something odd with the altitude. (FTX Vector AEC done!)

This ILS doesn't have an offset in real, so i don't understand why it hasn't been adjusted to 310° before release?
5° offset is nearly an localizer type directional aid not an ILS.


I remember when i used your maledives with the PMDG MD-11 scenery it was totally misaligned, too.
Shouldn't be a big deal to make this scenery navaids working as real. A strong reason why i purchase addon airports.

regards
Paul

[horst18519]

I can't reproduce the issue you described (see attached image). The glideslope should perfectly lead to the threshold.

[PGB]

I can't reproduce the issue you described (see attached image). The glideslope should perfectly lead to the threshold.

The altitude issue doesn't have to be GS related. I will fly some patterns tonight. Maybe i had a windshear when landing
just checked the screenshots i had taken on final. This could explain the issue too.

I'd be happy if you correct the Localizer which still has 5° offset which it shouldn't have.

Btw. nobody uses standard FSX aircrafts nowadays, its just a toy. Every runways allignment should fit to AIRAC data, the only reliable parameter.
How could i do RNAV approaches if the runway is being somewhere but not where it should be.

[horst18519]

It's never a good thing if the runway isn't where it's supposed to be but in this case it should certainly be. Did you do a clean new installation of the addon and made sure there's no other addon causing potential conflicts? Please provide screenshots of the approach, the touchdown and the airport so we can tell if there's something wrong with your installation.

Btw. nobody uses standard FSX aircrafts nowadays, its just a toy. Every runways allignment should fit to AIRAC data, the only reliable parameter.

Developers don't fly. We just start the simulator to see if things look like they're supposed to. If you start your simulator 50 times a day you don't want to set up your airliner everytime you do, so we usually use default aircraft for testing. They're a mere measurement tool for us. Their instruments work just as precise as addon airliner instruments because they use the same variables.

[PGB]

It's never a good thing if the runway isn't where it's supposed to be but in this case it should certainly be. Did you do a clean new installation of the addon and made sure there's no other addon causing potential conflicts? Please provide screenshots of the approach, the touchdown and the airport so we can tell if there's something wrong with your installation.

Btw. nobody uses standard FSX aircrafts nowadays, its just a toy. Every runways allignment should fit to AIRAC data, the only reliable parameter.

Developers don't fly. We just start the simulator to see if things look like they're supposed to. If you start your simulator 50 times a day you don't want to set up your airliner everytime you do, so we usually use default aircraft for testing. They're a mere measurement tool for us. Their instruments work just as precise as addon airliner instruments because they use the same variables.

So i rechecked meanwhile by doing patterns:

Your glideslope is perfect to simulate ASIANA 214.

I'll crash into the end of the runway at 50ft DAH when autoland (so it's not windshear issue)

And the localizer issue lookes like that: (pls have an eye on the PAPI, too)

[PGB]

any feedback?

"yes we are looking into it"
"no, we have started painting easter-eggs"
"something"

[islandking]

Hi Guys,

I get the exact same crash, PMDG 777 300ER hits the runway at 50ft altitude with or without wind. It also happened with the previous Seychelles X scenery. I cannot autoland only manually

Maybe there is an issue somewhere?

Cheerz

Daniel

[PGB]

I cannot autoland only manually

Daniel

you'll most probably also have issues landing manually.

you can't trust LOC indicator
you can't trust G/S indicator
you can't trust PAPI
you can't trust your EGPWS callouts for flare
you can't trust your RA and your baro-settings

you can do a complete visual and flare @ 100ft, good luck.

I hope for a patch soon. This shouldn't have passed any beta testing, starting with 5° LOC offset.

[horst18519]

We places the navaids exactly where they are in reality. To be quite honest I don't know how it works in reality given the rather low altitude on final but currently I don't see any way changing this without moving the navaids to different (unrealistic) locations.
GS and PAPI are 3.0° just like in reality.

[PGB]

We places the navaids exactly where they are in reality.

I do not deny that but you forgot to set

a) correct runway heading at this airport in real 310° not 311°
b) correct airport/runway altitude which should be 12 ft according to charts not ~18 ft as it is being set in your scenery (17,9 ft during my test i did before)
Thats nearly 2 meters too high
c) corrrect LOC course which is 310° not 305°

The LOC DME postition is set correctly, i checked it against AIRAC data fixes.

pls fix the rest; thats absolutely elementary for IFR flying

thank you
Paul

[horst18519]

I think we're getting closer to the core of your problems.

correct airport/runway altitude which should be 12 ft according to charts not ~18 ft as it is being set in your scenery...

Our scenery (AFD file) does not set airport elevation to 18ft but actually 10ft (we did that for visual reasons, that altitude worked better with our mesh).
Also note the magnetic variation of -5° in this area. Official runway 31 heading is 305° GEO / 310° MAG, that's exactly the numbers we have in our scenery. ILS is aligned with this heading (310° MAG), glide slope and PAPI is 3.0°.

I would assume there is either some other file (from anther addo) interfering (only explanation for the elevation offset) and/or the magnetic variation was not taken into account. Could you please double-check this?

[PGB]

There is a

AFX_FSIA.bgl (which belongs to your scenery)

and a

ABP_FSIA.bgl (from FTX vector)

nothing else. The Airport Elevation Correction tool doesn't take care of your FSIA.

I deacticated ABP_FSIA.bgl if it does changes to the altitude, but no!

P3Dv3.2 still shows me nearly 17,9 ft elevation not 10 or 12.

This is a very fresh install no freeware islands, whatever installed in this region.

[horst18519]

Please disable all ftx addons in the scenery library to make sure the problem isn't related to them and move FSDG-Seychelles to the top of the scenery library.

[curts]

I had the same problem.
But I just did a test flight using AS A320 and now the ILS landing was ok.

What I did was correcting the ILS data for FSIA/SIA using the tool and data from Hervé Sors at http://www.aero.sors.fr.
I have used these:
1) Updated Magnetic Variation data
2) FSX/P3D World Navaids package
3) ILS/Rwy regional updates for Africa
4) ILS/Runway Inspector and Editor using data from the latest AIRAC (1603)
With this I changed the data for LOC, GS and DME.

/Curt

[garrettprs]

Yeah something is definitely not aligned properly. I tried all of the steps that Curt outlined and they didn't work. Like him, I'm using the Aerosoft Airbus with AIRAC 1603.

I was able to get aligned a little bit by using the "aling LOC" tick box in the ILS/Runway Inspector/Editor tool's calculation options. The aircraft would then line up slightly to the right of the center line.

I'm sure I could play around more with it but I'd rather leave it to the pros (and I don't feel like I should have to spend time on this).

I think it's only off by a fraction of a degree. The charts I found align with all of the data in ADE (as Thorsten says) to the whole number and the magvar seems to be correct but I think we're dealing with fractions of a degree here:

AIRAC says the LOC heading is 305.18, the FSDG AFCAD (which uses the stock FSX ILS data) uses 305.04 and the AIRAC + "align LOC" calculation gives us 304.70, the latter of which is, again, much closer than anything else but slightly to the right. So I'm guessing that the true value is approx. 304.90 or something.

But the main reason I leave this to FSDG is I'm not sure if then that means that the runway (and possible everything else in the AFCAD) need to be rotated every so slightly so that it's all aligned (e.g. the taxi paths and such).

[PGB]

I had the same problem.
But I just did a test flight using AS A320 and now the ILS landing was ok.

What I did was correcting the ILS data for FSIA/SIA using the tool and data from Hervé Sors at http://www.aero.sors.fr.
I have used these:
1) Updated Magnetic Variation data
2) FSX/P3D World Navaids package
3) ILS/Rwy regional updates for Africa
4) ILS/Runway Inspector and Editor using data from the latest AIRAC (1603)
With this I changed the data for LOC, GS and DME.

/Curt

Hi Curt,

thank you for trying to help. Did all the steps as you adviced. The situation is at least better now but still far from perfect.

(@Thorsten: FTX doesn't influence the situation in any way.)

Its an FSIA issue:

G/S: still doesn't lead to 1000ft marker (aiming point)
LOC: still not alligned with the centerline of the runway.

I have purchased tons of airports, islands with runway e.g. Pacsim and never had any problems with ILS, just VRMM as long as i used it and now FSIA
are stealing my time.

[horst18519]

I'm sorry to read that, this is certainly not what we're aiming for. Unfortunately I don't think I actually understand the problem so I guess it'll be good to take a closer look at this issue:

- the actual real runway heading is something close to 305.10° (you can use GoogleEarth to measure this)
- the aerial imagery we used to create the scenery (in combination with the way we processed it which can always give very slight abbreviations) lead to a new runway heading of 124.7°. That doesn't sound like much of a difference but it's true it can lead to an offset of roughly 10 meters at the end of the runway.
- The Glide slope (controlled by the G/S antenna at rwy 31 threshold) is 3° from runway elevation (10ft).

We can't change runway heading and we can't move the navaids, but we can try to find out if these small corrections will solve your problems:

- change ILS heading to 304.7
- change G/S antenna elevation to 10+15ft (those things are usually 25ft high so I guess 15ft above the ground is a realistic value)

Please download the attached file and replace old one (backup!). I hope this works for you.

[curts]

I have now tested an autoland at FSIA rwy 31 using AS A320 and PMDG B738 both with AIRAC 1603.
This worked ok. The only thing I could see was that the PAPI/VASI light showed that I was coming in to low.

Thanks!

/Curt